The incentive it to encourage more use and creat liquidity, I would totally agree with you that selling BTC for CEL just to try and profit from increased interest would not be a good idea for most people
If i were new to cel i would just throw a couple hundred in cel token knowing it would probably catch up with my ratio
If you understood the project sure, but for strictly profit motive just depositing and HODLing to me, makes the most sense for the average user
Taking interest in CEL is actually how you compound. Currently, take it sell it, buy your favorite crypto and redeposit it. But odds are you’ll make more just HODLing CEL. AUM is growing like crazy. CEL will grow as BTC grows and as BTC deposits grow. One of the few tokens with forced buying (celsius buys a ton to pay interest) and heavily incentivized holding (for users to get bonus interest and interest on CEL when it’s implemented). That’ll only grow as deposits grow.
yeah well basically if you say something negative about the product, they tell you you are stupid and other things I cannot even mention here
Being nice helps pump out bags! But honestly, Celsius sells itself. Very professional and well thought out. I think it’ll be one of those-why didnt anyone think of this before?-types of examples in the future.
I thought Roubini was on this app for sec and clicked his name. Or maybe that’s him modeling adidas 🤔
Did you break him? I feel like he's the sweetest man on the planet that wants to learn, but there are too many placing a bad name in the Blockchain/crypto space! He obviously will listen to your wise wisdom 😎
Hello community,one question: Everybody is talking about how holding cel is a no-brainer,how the aum is growing like crazy,how celsius is buying back cel every week,how much money we can make with 8,1% i am asking you honestly,how is this system gonna be sustainable? This is a true question,no fud.I am not an economist,i don’t know it,but i am searching for answers and try to understand. Thanks!
I much prefer my rates to go down but the system to continue, than having 10% for life and then the system being unsustainable and crash
so I would imagine that if things go south, meaning that the people no longer borrow money because all the coins crash, then our interest rates would perhaps be only 2% or even less
ok,i forgot this.the rates would drop.If there is no missmanagement because they want to hold the high rates. And if the rates would drop much lower there would not be any advantage having your money on celsius,because the risk is much higher. so the only thing we have two hope is,that celsius does not missmanagements and really gives just the rates they earn and not in purpose more than they have. i would be happy with lower rates if they were truely the rates they earned..
and buy the way:did you here that the real satoshis is gonna unveal himself today? this would shake up the whole community...i think it would be bad for the price...read ccn
How is the risk higher on celsius ? I guess the risk in the same as having your crypto sitting on coinbase
and had no choice but to pay more and suddenly were way over their head and the all thing collapsed
here, I don't see such a thing, because of the flexibility of the system, but I think I should actually analyze the viewpoint of the borrower, I haven't done that yet
in case some are interested, I simplified my table and added the weekly interest and made the table much cleaner:
your crypto yes,not usdc. if you convert money from your savings in usdc (as alex is saying this for example) to earn fair interest in your savings,than the risk is of course higher than on the bank (depending on your country). Alex likes to say,the risk is lower,cause they have collateral,but this is not really true,because for example in europe your capital is save until 100k even if the bank collapses. That’s what i meant.
In Europe you have 100k secured if you have it in your account. If you have your money invested somewhere forget about the 100k secured.
Yes that’s true but don’t mix the things...if you have invested in financial instruments issued by the bank (let’s say a bond) and the bank goes into bankruptcy you’ll probably loose your money (and that’s depends on the classification of the bond itself...if the bond is a subordinated etc) while if you have another financial instrument not issued by the bank (let’ say an ETF issued by BlackRock) even if the bank fails you can redeem your moneys because the juridical person are different
that is obvious.I talked about savings.not about invested money. having money in btc is invested and as i wrote,it is fine to have it on celsius. converting savings into usdc,is like having savings on the bank.and this is more secure in a bank in europe...
PS: I'm not sure, but it's probably what happens, never looked into it much... it's not like they have 100k for each bank account in the world 😆
No... I'm saying that if the whole bank industry goes bankrupt how will they secure those 100k? It must come from somewhere...
That 100k guarantee is not issued by banks, at least in Spain. It's guaranteed at state level
It seems the banks have a deposit insurance that they created, where they put money from time to time to insure those deposits...
So they are just hoarding cash in case they screw up the system... most of that deposit came out of depositors pockets 😆
Meanwhile Spain and Portugal go for the normal 100k 😆 If it was up to my government the deposits would be insured for negative 100k...
When Celsius can offer something similar, they will get enormous! I feel this is the biggest reason why I cannot get friends/family to use Celsius
Celsius offers something similar.... a 100M insurance on each account of Bitgo and they have multiple accounts
Hehe yep. As long as I don't have better answers to give to friends/family, they will not trust Celsius with their money
Each wallet covers basically 1000 users in the same amounts the European banks cover (100k euros)... if Celsius has 10 wallets it basically has this whole telegram group insured 😆
Maybe 😊 But this kind of information should be more clarified to attract more people, in my opinion 😊
It’s a fund that has been created at the end of 1900 and currently regulated by bank of Italy to ensure a 100k insurance on banking accounts
Additional insurance on capital ratio to avoid systematic failures are also required by Basilea III and related regulations
Banks have FDIC insurance per account in the US of 250k per person. This is necessary because banks fractional lend. They only keep 10% of their deposits and borrow 90% from the government. And to get a loan from the bank you only need to deposit 0-30% or so. So if the economy crashes and people can’t pay back their loans, people get worried about the banks ability to pay back depositors so they all try to withdraw their cash. And if everyone withdraws their deposits, ALL the banks fail and the economy collapses. That’s why the US instituted FDIC insurance after the Great Depression
My understanding is that at Celsius, All theses risks that led to needing FDIC insurance are largely removed. They have zero fractional lending. They do not take your deposits and use them to borrow more from the government. Every loan is over collateralized. You request a loan you need to put down 100%+ in collateral vs the banks at 0-30%. If you can’t repay your loan. They sell your collateral. At banks, theyd have to go through the legal system and get the collateral like your house or business. Takes enormous amount of time. At Celsius it’s instant. They sell your crypto. If people pull their deposits, there’s always enough to pay out. If the market crashes, Celsius sells the collateral to make sure loans are covered.
In some countries, depositor insurance is worthless. Ask people in Argentina and Venezuela. Their deposits were inflated to worthlessness.
FDIC insurance also isn’t limitless. It’s a fund and the banks pay a premium (fee). If everyone pulled their deposits simultaneously, the whole system would collapse and there wouldn’t be enough to cover it all.
But I get the concern. You don’t have to put everything in Celsius. Do a small amount. Sounds like your friends and family members are financially responsible. I like an idea I’ve heard (will give him credit if he wants) about a Celsius credit card. I think this would attract a ton of people like your family members. People would be able to use it anywhere and it uses your deposits as collateral. This would enable super low rates of like around 5% compared to regular credit cards that charge 25%. And you could get a cash back reward in CEL. People like me pay off my credit card bill every month. So it’d be nice to have this in case i accidentally forget or am down on cash and don’t get screwed for one less than 100% payment and on top of it I get some sweet CEL cash back rewards. I think this would attract a ton of more conservative users, who’d just use it for this sort of purpose.
Also, i view keeping assets at Celsius more like keeping stock at a stock broker. Let’s say fidelity. Anyone that owns stock keeps it somewhere else. Stock is not insured anywhere that I know and these companies go and lend it out just like Celsius is doing. Alex has said fidelity makes 30% on your stocks doing this. Celsius deploys the same strategies but give 80% of that back to the community whereas fidelity keeps 100%.
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I don't think you are correct on the 10-90% of deposits rule. Banks are collecting deposits (which are actually not deposits in legal terms, it's like bonds taken from the customer that the bank need to pay back, so depositor is actually a loan provider of the bank and they own the bank owns the money as theirs), and based on the amount of deposits, they are able to create money or give loans to people asking for them. Those created out of thin air money are still limited to a ratio where the total loans can get up to 90% of the sum of all deposits + loans. You are also wrong that banks borrow money from the government to create loans. At no point a bank loans money from the government or any centralized institution to give you loans. They are the creators of money in the system as long as they follow the loose rules.
Central Banks and the fed do not create money. It's the normal banks that do at the moment when someone goes for a loan. First time I heard this when i was in school I got paralyzed, lol
The fact is the banks create money out of thin air for you. But if you do not pay, they come for you and can take your home. So banks get real things by lending nothing.
Werner is quite cool in explaining in easy terms the whole concept for the ones that didn't care to study financial bs.
that's just one of the parts that are so so wrong with the system, but it kinda works and we have nothing better, so... learn your ways around it :)
Thanks I will look. I was wondering more about the order book - does it make sense to try for a lower price...
Great question. What makes this sustainable is that Celsius pays its depositors 80% of what it earns. Period. So if it’s earnings are low we get less interest, if they earn more, higher. By owning CEL you are getting a larger piece of that 80% distribution than you otherwise would.
on coinpaprika it's 0.070https://coinpaprika.com/coin/cel-celsius/
I feel like there is such a HUGE opportunity right now with the price of cel being so low. It’s only a matter of time before we reach back to ico prices. I hope US holders can earn in CEL next week. Fingers crossed 🤞🏽🤞🏽🤞🏽
we already know that 🤔 we need to know when we can buy cel directly in celsius wallet or things like that
Tomorrow I receive my first interest from Celsius :)) Someone can explain on very simple terms why I should receive all my interest in cel ?
If you want to build your cel balance so that you can earn higher rates of interest, or simply that you speculate on the price of cel increasing in the future
If > 10% of your total deposits are in CEL then you get 30% bonus interest that is paid in CEL. While the price of CEL fluctuates, it rarely (if ever) (someone should check on this) drops 30% over the following week. I’d bet 99% of the time you’d be ahead by taking CEL. (This would be a good stat for Celsius to research).
The more holders take interest on Cel tokens and keep them, the more buy pressure will be on the market and the more Cel token's price will go up
I asked support about this today, and they said hopefully (no guarantee, of course) within two weeks. "Our devoted team is working hard on obtaining all the necessary licenses so we can again provide to our US users to earn interest in CEL."
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